Intelligent Investing #66 Glenn's Tips to being a Successful Investor in a Down Market The Do's and Do Nots Part 1 of 4

 In this episode Glenn explores tips to being a Successful Investor in a Down Market The Do's and Do Not's Part 1 of 4

Glenn unpacks concerns and how he walks clients through these concerns.  He also explores the truth and the misconceptions about each. 

1) Glenn I am sure you have been a lot of calls recently about what to do in a down market. What types of concerns have you been seeing lately?

2) Should I move everything to cash?

3) I only want to invest when stocks are going up

4) Why is my portfolio down? Isn't there something you can do to make it so it never has a temporary draw-down

5) I don't want to pay for investment management if my account is down

6) Look how much I have lost, my account lost _______ amount of dollars

7) What about Gold, I hear that is safe. What if I move everything over to Gold?

8) The market is going to zero.

Thanks for joining us on Intelligent Investing with Glenn Leest! Your go-to source for navigating the complex world of finance and becoming an intelligent investor. We appreciate your trust in us and your commitment to your own financial future.

Connect with Us:

Glenn Leest
Senior Investment Advisor
WT Wealth Management
Office Phone: (928) 225-2474 Office
Email: intelligentinvesting@wtwealthmanagement.com

Website: https://www.wtwealthmanagement.com/team/glenn-leest
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/intelligentinvestingwithglenn/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GlennLeestIntelligentInvesting/
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@IntelligentInvestingGlennLeest?si=d6S0y14lghz0eaHa


**Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review our podcast on your favorite platform.
Your feedback helps us provide you with more valuable content.

We'll be back with more insights into intelligent investing and how it relates to your world.
Stay informed and make those smart financial choices.
Until next time, this is Intelligent Investing with Glenn Leest, helping you make your money work for you.
...

Transcript

 The following is paid programming brought to you by WT Wealth Management. Nothing we discuss should be considered as investment advice. This conversation is for informational purposes only. Please do your own research and speak to an investment advisor or financial planner before making any investment decisions.

Welcome everyone. You're listening to Intelligent Investing with Glen Leest, and we've got a lot to talk about today, and you can always get in touch with Glenn by calling 9 2 8 2 2 5 24 74 or by the mailing Glenn Intelligent investing@wtwealthmanagthement.com. And uh, Glenn has Cody Harmon here as well today.

Yeah, we got, we got a lot to cover. You want to hit on. How to be successful. How to successfully be investing in a down market. Yeah. I want to blank for a second. It's like, that's a tough subject to think about. We're right on the top of all our minds. You're an invested, right? Yeah. And what to do and, and more importantly, what not do, what not to do.

I think sometimes that's the biggest key. Mm-hmm.  is what not to do. So, we'll get into all that. Um, and I'm sure you've been getting a lot of calls, especially recently with, last year was kind of a rough. Yeah. Um, you and I were talking about that. It was, it was down across really every asset class except for a few.

Cody, you brought up stats on that. Um, wasn't it like cash and cash and just commodities and chicken, egg and chicken, chicken, chicken, eggs, cash, and chicken eggs are about the big things. Uh, but I'm sure you're getting a lot of calls from clients, or you have been, especially throughout the end of last year about mm-hmm.

you know what I do in a down market? Um, I guess what, what type, what types of concerns do you have? Um, what have you been seeing lately? Where are we in 2023 now? Yeah, so I wrote down probably the top 10 questions I've been getting. Yeah. And then we'll unpack each one and, and look at each one and, you know, decipher this truth and maybe what's a misconception, but I'll just start reading 'them right now.

Cash. First one is, should I move everything to cash? You know, should I get out of the market? Move to cash. The other one is I've heard is I only want to invest in stocks when they're going up. Well, me too, right? The other one is, why is my portfolio down? Isn't there something you can do to get positive for the year and not have any draw downs?

Um, I've heard people say, I don't want to pay for investment management if my count's going to  be negative. Heard that one before. Um, the other one I've heard is, look at how much I've lost. My count is down X amount of dollars since, uh, you know, beginning of 2022 or whatever. Um, what about gold? We'd mentioned gold.

You know, is that a safe, maybe I should just put all my money in gold. I've heard that one. What, what if you know the market's going to zero. I heard that one a couple times. They're like, oh, everything's going to zero. Just, you know, apple's going to be zero., which, IBM We'll, we'll unpack that later too. Okay.

Cause it's, these are kind of interesting things. Another one is, what happens if we enter recession? And the last one I've heard that's common is, you know, I heard my neighbor, you know, is in this. Annuity type product and they're giving them six or 7% guaranteed return. Should I just put all my money in that?

Yeah. So those are kind of the, some of the main questions and obviously a lot more on top of that. Okay. Well, let's, let's hit on those and, and maybe people can the mail, they probably have more on this oh list that they can add. You can always the mail intelligent investing@wtwealthmanagthement.com or call Glenn and his team at 9 2 8 2 2 5 24 74.

But Glenn, I guess we'll start with the first one. Should I move everything to cash? Yeah. And put it under the old mattress, I guess. Yeah. So, cash as an asset class is pretty much, it doesn't move a whole lot. And if it does it's going to move down because of inflation. If you look at the value of a dollar in 1905 versus what the dollars’ worth, now it's lost like 90, 95% of its value.

Because you, you'd hear like, oh, my grandpa used to go and get a, you know, soda, watch a movie and get snacks for a nickel, you know, and nowadays, you know, why do we even have pennies? You know, it's like, oh yeah, the cost of everything. So yeah, if you put everything to cash, let's think about that. That implies that you're going to get out the market.

Assuming you're invested in stocks, you're going to sell out of those equities at whatever the price is, which right now, if you compare between B 2022 and now, they're negative, and so you'd be selling at a low point, putting it in the bank. And I think what people. One to try and achieve is when stocks go lower, they'll buy back in.

Or when they start to see it go up, they'll buy back in. But really that's a, it's not even anything about how smart you are, it's just pure luck because I don't know when the bottom is, I don't know when things are going to turn around. And day-to-day things can change quite a bit. So, people that want to go to cash, really what they're doing is trying to short-term day trade, and hopefully it works out for the best, whereas.

You know, if, if, if day trading was successful and people could do it, everyone and their mom would do day trading, day to day and make a ton of money. But we know that's not the case. Very few people could do that and it has nothing to do about how smart they are. Even some of the best analysts I saw this one where it's JP Morgan, one of their head analysts is, is right 49% of the time and wrong.

41, uh, 51% of the time. So, you know, quote, work out half the time, it works every time. So, um, it's like people will gamble. You only hear him tell you about the winning. Yeah, so, and you don't hear about the losses. The problem with going to cash though is say the market does turn around and start going up.

You're missing on all that upside potential. And when do you get back in, is the question you get back in, you know, when it hits a certain point or, uh, you know, start to rise, or go down. I've seen clients try to do that over the years, and every single time it has not worked out in their favor. And I tell 'them, hey, you could do that, but I strongly advise against it because, you know, it's just game of luck, if anything.

So that's, that's one I've heard. Okay. Um, yeah. Yeah. And it, it's the experts, or shall we call 'them more the people who trade for professionally mm-hmm. They would have a hard time doing that. Can you sit there in front of a screen and uh, make money day trading? I would argue most people could not do that.

If I was doing that, I wouldn't be an investment advisor. Well, yeah, you would two, 3 million a year and just stay in my house. Exactly. And just roll with it. And it's just not a reality. And I think, I think part of that is just people. You know, I don't want to say pride or egos. They, they're like, oh, well it didn't work for everyone else, but it will work for me.

You're like, all right. Where's they hear the success story? Yeah. It's like you hear about the lottery winner. Mm-hmm., but you didn't hear about the 300 other million people that didn't win it. Right., they've been playing every week for 20 years. Yeah. It's so, yeah. Okay, so that's Okay. So, you got all that cash.

Maybe someone has all that cash and then they say, hey, I only want to invest when the stocks are going up. So, they're sitting there with their bundles of cash. Mm-hmm. They're like, okay, let me bring it to Glen and Cody now, and let's put it in today. Today's the. Yeah. And, and some of the ways I, uh, counteract that phenomenon of, you know, people being worried about short-term fluctuations and the market is I layer their investments.

So, um, what's that mean? Yeah. So, I'll have a short-term bucket, mid-term bucket, and a long-term bucket. So, the short-term bucket is going to be, Cash or, or money market or cd, that's money that you know is liquid and available. If we make any kind of return on it, great. But that's not the point. It's just there because we know we have a big expense, or we need monthly income.

The second bucket would be maybe from the. One year to three years. You know, that's money that after you drain that first bucket, you know, you can start tapping into that. And then the third bucket, long range would be like your money that you can let grow for at least five years. And so when people come in and they ask, Hey, Glen, what should I invest in my follow up questions?

Well, what's your, what's your goal? You know, what's your time horizon? If you need to be buying a house at the end of the month and you need to pay that? you know, to wire the money in for the escrow. Well, that money is to stay in the bank. Yes. Don't do anything with it. But if you said, hey, I'm going to save for retirement 5, 10, 15 years out, then yeah, we can afford to take some risks.

So, I think, um, if you layer that properly, you're not so worried about what the short-term fluctuations of the market are, because you've already kind of built in a game plan. Um, and I did that with one of our wealthy, my wealthier clients, is we had.  exactly that we had a kind of cash account that was in CDs and money markets.

Very liquid, but no risk really. And that was enough for like two years of income. So that way, the mid-range bucket, you know, we got two full years of volatility, you know, um, that we can kind of built in for that, uh, that that first bucket. So yeah, 2008 to 2010, um, when we had a huge recession. Yeah. Took a little over two years to recover.

So, I'm already kind. Factoring in like these worst-case scenarios. So that's, that's a way to not have to do all in one investment. Stocks are going up, uh, if we are honest with ourselves, we know you want to buy low and sell high, not buy high and sell low. And so, by people investing all in stocks are going up.

There, you know, they're kind of getting that equation out of order. They're trying to buy maybe at a higher price and, you know, maybe they sell at a lower price and then it keeps cranking up and then more and more people get in. But that's also getting more and more toward. That top potentially in that stock.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and one way I look at it is, you know, say you've got a stock and uh, it was a hundred dollars, now it went down to 80. So, you buy some at 80 and it goes down to 70 or 60. Well, you buy an 80 with still a pretty good deal. Um, yeah. You know, may I go down more, but who, who knows how low it'll go, you know, all the analysts, all the charts.

I mean, it's really anyone's guess. So, um, I like to try and take the guesswork out of it and just have a good solid game plan. Alright. Another call that you said you're getting and, and we. Glenn Leest and Cody Harmon from WT Wealth Management. Why is my portfolio down? Isn't there something you can do to make it so it never has, uh, a, a temporary uh, downturn?

Yeah, it never down fixes it. Yeah. So, stop it from going down right now, Glenn. So, it's kind of interesting because uh, whenever I work with a client, um, that first year of us working together, I'm kind of on thin ice. Because if that first year is a bad year, they’re going to neg automatically assume it was my fault, even though the market sound.

But if I have said, three good years under a belt and then we have a negative year, it's a whole different perspective that people have. And so, when people are asking, is there something we can invest in that, you know, we'll never go down. Yeah. But it won't probably go up either. You know if you put money in a CD.

you know, which right now we can get 4.5% ish on a three-month CD. That's as much as it's going to pay you. You know, it's not going to somehow go to 20% return. So yeah, you can invest in something that will never go down, but it might never really go up. So, we have to kind of be honest with ourselves of what's the goal.

And we had a client recently, um, they wanted to. Invest money for two or three years. That was when we sat down. But after two or three months, they were already like, oh my gosh, my account, this and that. And they weren't even off that much from where they started, but they were like, well, I'll just put it all in a CD and make 4%.

And I was like, yeah, you could do that, but your portfolio's up 4% in the first couple weeks of January. So, it's like you kind of must look at the tradeoffs. Um, so yeah, so there's not. A whole lot of things if you want good returns. They were looking at a lot. Yeah. They were looking at their account.

Mm-hmm.  a little. Yeah, and I, and I tell clients, out of every five years in the stock market, three of the years are probably going to be positive returns. One is going to be flat, and one are going to be negative. That's just kind of the stats. And so, if we have three or four back-to-back good years, it is reasonable to expect that we're going to have a down year.

but that sometimes is lost. It's easier said than done. I'll say that. Yeah. Put a personal note in here, Glen. I, I invest with you. Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I chose last year to start with you. I haven't looked at the account, honestly. Yeah. Um, I mean, I have long-term horizons and yeah. You know, I, I invest in a lot of things and, um, I, I don't know, I, maybe I should look sometime, but you're saying it's gone up in January.

It's just if, if you're just like, hey, I'm three months and I'm freaking out, then maybe it's not. Maybe you're not in the right gig. I don't know. Yeah. And it's hard. It's hard for me to help people be successful. Yeah. When they're not honest with themselves. Yeah. And say, oh, I want to be aggressive when the market's going up, but when it's going down.

Yeah. I don't want any type of, I think I told you to be aggressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So maybe I should look. So, here's, here's one way to explain it that really helps me frame things. So, say you have a hundred dollars in your portfolio, and you buy a. A hundred shares of Apple and they're each worth $1 portfolios worth a hundred dollars.

You have a hundred shares; apple goes up to $2 a share. Your portfolio's worth 200, but you still have the same a hundred shares. What if Apple went down to 75 cents a share? Well, now your portfolio's worth $75, but you still have the same 100 shares. And so, when we look at on paper, um, some people say, oh, my accounts lost this much.

Looks how much has lost. I was like, well, on paper it's, it's um. Loss or gain. Cause we haven't sold; we don't lose till we sell. And so, you still have the same number of shares today as you did, you know, six months ago. And, and for me, that gives me a lot of solace to, yeah. Look at that. Apple 1 42.

Yeah. That was just an example. No, no, I, but yes, it's, I, I, I, I would love to have Apple one. I, um, back in the nineties when I first started investing in stuff, late nineties, apple was like really in a tank. I think it was like 12 Wow. Or something. And I really wanted to buy it. I was thinking of buying like, you know, just even a hundred shares.

Mm-hmm.  and just this letter, right? 1 42 last day changed. Well, you're not counting split. It's split. Split and split and split. Yeah. Yeah. pH only, we had a time machine. Does anyone call you and say, Glen, where's the time machine? Can we go back? Did I tell you in high school we ordered a time machine. This is funny story.

Yeah, you did remind everyone about that. Yeah, so we were on eBay and my friends, and I like, I look over and they're like, oh yeah, look, we got a time machine. And it was like this piece of wood with all these electrical components on it. It looked like it was the most ghetto object ever. And we bought it.

And then, um, we start hassling the guy like, hey, it's not working. And he's like, oh, you got to turn the dial to this and re calibrate that. And we're like, we did that. And he's like, well, did you look at the thermal threw or whatever. And we were just laughing, just going back and forth. Cause this guy that sold it was dead set.

Like this could seriously make you go through. Which, why would you sell it? Why would you sell it on eBay for $40 if it worked? Yeah. Anyways. So, this, I thought you bought it from the guy in the corner having the argues. Oh yeah. With himself? No. Yeah, yeah. Who's sprayed the guy in the strait jacket or the one arguing with the guy in the strait jacket.

You're listening to Intelligent Investing with Glenn Leest. If you got any comments for Glen or want to talk with him, get that free. No obligation consultation, uh, or time machine. 9 2 8 2 2 5 24 74. You can also the mail Glen Intelligent Investing WT wealth management.com back in just a minute.

You're listening to Intelligent Investing with Glen Leest. Give Glenn a call right now at (928) 225-2474. That's 9 2 8 2 2 5 24 74. More intelligent investing with Glen Le when we come back.

The following is paid programming brought to you by WT Wealth Management. Nothing we discuss should be considered as investment advice. This conversation is for informational purposes only. Please do your own research and speak to an investment advisor or financial planner before making any investment decisions.

All right. Welcome back to Intelligent Investing with Glen Leest. We got rid of the Time Machine. If you'd like to talk with Glen, give him a call at (928) 225-2474. The mail Intelligent investing WT wealth management.com. We're going over some. Kind of recent calls, I guess Glen's gotten regarding the down market.

Yeah, 2022 was a little rough, but, you know, 23 will be hopeful, right? It started off a little better, I think. Yeah, and I think usually when you have a double digit down year, the chances of the following year being a good year are high. So if you have a really big draw down year, like negative 22, 25, 30, the chances of that next year, even if it recovers back to even it's going to  be, say it was down 25% one year, and if it was to recover back to that, Number, you know, zero.

Mm-hmm, you're looking at 27, 20 8% return. Yeah. So, yeah, I think this year could be a good year and nobody can guarantee returns, but, uh, no guarantee you that the, the money under the mattress probably pro I, I guess we can't guarantee anything. Probably loses value. Over time, if we look at it historically.

Oh yeah. 99% since, yeah. What you say? 1913 or whatever percent loss of value for the US over the last 120 years. That is crazy. Okay, so some of the questions, and I guess calls you've gotten over the past couple of months, Glen, and one of 'them has to do with, because obviously you do this for a. . Yeah. Cody does this for a living.

You have a whole team Yeah. Around you at, at WT wealth management and, well, you'd like to get paid for your services mm-hmm.  even when things maybe don't pan out for the short term. So people ask you, Hey, my portfolio's down, um, uh, I don't want to, I don't want to pay for the investment management . I'm, they'll say, I don't want to pay you to lose me money.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Some derivatives. Yeah. So, what do you say? What do you say to that? With, with folks, we had a client come in, um, like two weeks ago, and he says, well, how about I do this when the markets or my portfolio is up, I'll just give you a share of the, the upside, you know, give you a, you know, say it goes up 10%, I'll give you guys two and a half percent of that.

And so, if you think about those sorts of arrangements where you only get paid if you make money, um, they're actually not in the investor's best interest. And the s e c does not allow that arrangement too. So, let's break that down. So, so you've got a hundred thousand dollars in your portfolio and the advisor only gets paid if he generates a positive return.

And so, say at the end of the year, it's at 99,000. Well, they're not going to get paid anything. So, a lot of times what happens in that scenario is they'll take excessive risks just to generate any kind of return because they're not getting paid anyway. They might as well roll the dice and then when you do make um, money, they're not going to just take a couple percent, they're going to need to.

30 or 40% of your returns. Cause what happens if you had two or three years of, you know, bad years in the market, the investment firm still has their lights to keep on, still allows to pay their people. And so that arrangement is kind of like the lawyers that work on contingency, they're taking a risk. Yeah.

That's why they say no money down to you only pay when you win. But when they win, they take 30, 40%. Yeah. 30, 40%. Yeah. Cause they bake in the times that they don't win. Bake in all those costs. So, you know, when people say, I don't want to pay you to lose money in my portfolio, I get, I get it. It's, it's uncomfortable.

Um, and it's, it's, no, it's no fun. But I Question is, do you pay your CPA only when you get a return? Yes. When you get money back, oh no, no. Yeah, when you get money back. So, you don't have to pay 'them If you owe taxes. I only pay, like when I go to restaurants, it's got to be ex exquisite food, you know? And sometimes I say I want to try it first and I'll come back later.

Maybe like, yeah, yeah. So, your C p A, like that analogy, you're going to pay them regardless of if you get money back.  or you must owe additional taxes. Yeah. And so that's the same concept, like we're doing our work and um, you know, we need to be compensated regardless. Cause it takes time and energy. Now there's times where the market's going to be down and everyone's down, you know, um, there's no safe places to hide.

But we, our goal is always to, um, improve. You know, so if the market's down 20%, if we can be down 17% or 15%, that's a win for us. Because then we don't have to have as much of a pronounced return to get back to even. So, um, it's like, you know, so if you add a hundred dollars and you have a 50% loss, you're going to be down at $50.

What return do you need to get on the $50 to get back to a hundred, a hundred percent. Right. So that's, that's something that, um, if we can reduce drawbacks, it's a big return. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's harder to go back up and, and try to get that Yeah. And ride those losses Yeah. Later and get them to go back up.

Yeah. You want to pay someone that's. Incentivized to grow your account, but not so incentivized where they'll take excessive risks and trade like a hedge fund. That's the hedge fund models. They call it two and 20. They'll charge you 2% plus 20% of the profits, 2% regardless, and then 20% tend to deal with very, very wealthy clients, very sophisticated clients in other times too, and.

Billions of dollars potentially. Sure. Yeah. So, uh, Glenn Leest is here with me and, uh, do you want to talk with Glenn? Give him a call. 9 2 8 2 2 5 24 74. The mail Intelligent Investing at WT Wealth Management and News may have, um, more specific questions on this, and you probably should because everybody's situation.

It's different. It's different. Mm-hmm., yeah. Timelines, everything. Um, okay, let's see. One more here that you got, that you mentioned at the, at the top of the show. Look, look how much I've lost. Uh, you know, my account lost X dollars, uh, X amount of dollars. Um, people, people will call you and talk about that.

Yeah. And sometimes they'll, there's this notion or idea that zero is at play. Meaning that they, they've lost so much that they think that the, their portfolio's going to go to zero. Cause if they, um, you know, project out, say 20. Percent downturn lost and after four years, you know, you're close to, you know, down at zero.

But that's not a reality of the market. Going to zero implies that every single company simultaneously goes bankrupt at the same time. And so, I mean that zombie apocalypse. Yeah. I mean, I keep, Cody and I were sitting there thinking, because we had heard someone say that, and they're like, oh, as a family member said, oh, the, you know, markets going to zero.

It went to zero in the seventies. No, didn't. No, didn't. And I was like, clearly there's some, uh, you know, lack of, of in-depth knowledge there, but blame the internet. Yeah. The, the, you know, a company like an Apple for example, you know, they may have a rough year where they develop a phone and, you know, shocks people the battery overheats or they have, you know, lackluster sales, but they're not going out business.

They're going to be around for a long time. And a lot of these companies we invest in are culturally significant. Even if we wanted to. Not use them. There's not a way around it. Like, are you going to not use Verizon or T-Mobile? You're not going to use a bank, you're not going to use Visa, MasterCard. What about waste management?

You're not going to be hauling your own trash. I've done that before and it's no fun. Yeah. Um, so a lot of these companies, they're, if you believe in the company, you know, you really know that zero's not in play. And if you have a thousand different companies or a hundred different companies, Chances of them all going simultaneously bankrupt is really Oh, that's ridiculous.

Not in place. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think that's something, not to say a company can't go bankrupt going zero one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but all 'them or the market going to zero. Yeah. Or even the big ones. It's, it, it's just improbable. Yeah. That doesn't mean they can't go down. Enron. That was a, a scenario where a larger company went to zero.

Yeah. But you'd only have gone bankrupt or been in serious trouble if you put every single egg in that one company, which some people did. Yes, some people did. Not only that, but they also put their, um, 401K and they bought the company stock and they're getting paid by the company. Um, so it's like when None ran out, they just got wiped out.

So, when we build portfolios, we're not looking to just invest in one company. We think that is a very, uh, uh, foolish decision. We want to do at least six or 70 companies, because then we kind of spread out the risk. And yeah, anyone could have a bad year, but they're not all going bankrupt. I, I remember. A lot on Enron and watch some documentaries.

And as it was going way down, like when it was getting close to the end, there were some people they would go out and.  to, to buy it because like, oh, what a, what a deal. This was at whatever it was a hundred dollars. Now it's only at, you know, it's $2 and 50 cents. So, they're borrowing money to buy, to take a risk stock, and then they lose that money and they still have to repay the loan.

They still owe the money. Yeah. So that's insane. One of Dave Ramsey's principles is like if you're having to borrow money to invest is just a bad idea. That's probably a bad idea. All right, Glenn, I, there's a lot more here, so I think we're going to have to carry this over. Mm-hmm, yeah. Uh, to next week's episode of In Intelligent Investing.

Um, let's do it. Remind folks about the podcast and, and best ways to get in touch with you. I mean, you, you're always doing this stuff. Cody's there, your team's always there as well. Yeah. Yeah. So, if you want to get a hold of us, um, you can the mail us at Intelligent investing@wtwealthmanagthement.com. Call our phone number, (928) 225-2474.

Uh, if you want to follow our podcast, Intelligent investment with Glen East on all your favorite podcast providers. I think I have close to like a hundred episodes. Yeah. And we cover a ton of topics, a lot of timeless stuff too, like, you know, life insurance, annuities, you know, portfolio allocation, risk, volatility, you know, what is a stock, what is a bond, you know, taxes, uh, what about estate?

Planning. Mm-hmm, uh, I do want to put a shout out that we just, uh, developed an estate planning division within our company, uh, as of the first of the year. So, we now have an estate planner. Okay. Um, we, they, they merged in with our company, so we have an estate planning division now too. So, we're, we're growing here, so.

Okay. Good. All right. And we'll be back. Next week with more of these questions, we might maybe even have more from people who come up with some additional ones. We'll send those in and Glen's always there for you. Give 'them a call, 9 2 8 2 2 5 24 74. We'll see you later. Thanks, Jeff.

The following has been paid programming brought to you by WT Wealth Management. Nothing we've discussed should be considered as investment advice. This conversation was for informational purposes only. Please do your own research and speak to. Advisor financial planner before making any investment decisions.